Simpedia

Cindy Bettinger, Illinois

Musicmaker:  I am Cindy Bettinger, who, along with Karen Tucker, reside in Charleston Illinois. I switched all my students over to SM in the fall of ’03 and the winter of 04.  Did anyone here start out teaching traditionally?

Helen P (AUS)  No. I was trained traditionally (10years), but never taught trad.

sreingoldUSA  I didn’t teach traditionally before but get inquiries from students who have learnt traditionally and so am a very interested in this conversation.

Barbara G (USA)  I’ve been in SM 2 years, but have taught traditionally forever.

Karen Tucker  I’m interested today because I think we all have to “switch” students, even new ones. from traditional ways

Musicmaker  Karen, you’re absolutely right. Part of what we’ll be discussing today is changing our own and our student’s way of thinking.  I’ll start by asking – who here is in the middle of switching, or contemplating switching, from traditional to SM?

Barbara G (USA)  I am.

Helen P (AUS)  Not me.

Emilie  not me either

sreingoldUSA not me

Musicmaker  Barbara, how did you begin the intro to SM?

Barbara G (USA)  I took my least experienced trad. students and gave the beginning conversations to the parents & students and said: based on their limited music reading ability I thought they would do better with SM

Musicmaker  One of the first things I did was write a letter to each one, which is posted in the transcripts page. Have you seen it?Just to give a little more background, I had approximately 16 students in the fall of 03, and by Jan all had either switched or quit.

Barbara G (USA)  For me the tough ones are the students I have had for years (3-6) and can read somewhat to rather well, and I feel would still benefit from the change to SM

Emilie  how many of the 16 quit and why do they believe they did

Musicmaker  when I say quit, I mean that one girl dropped out of sight and one girl finally decided to find a traditional teacher.  The rest eagerly embraced the new method.

Helen P (AUS)  I also have questions about the SM reading program for reading-based students who can already read a bit.

Barbara G (USA)  All students I tried to switch did, except one traditional student who I still teach Reading-based.

Musicmaker  None of my students were what you’d call good readers, though several could read.  I think one thing that helped me in switching those who had invested years in traditional training was the fact that I, too, had to switch, starting at Level 1.  I am an excellent reader, but in my opinion, not a productive musician

Karen Tucker  what do you mean by productive musician?

Musicmaker  Productive, meaning that I could play as long as I had my music, but couldn’t compose, or play without the written page

Karen Tucker  did you have students who had no desire to compose or play without the music?

Musicmaker  Karen, sure I did, I was referring to some of the reasons why I personally wanted to switch.

Since no one here is just starting out with the switch to SM, let me ask, how did you teachers prepare yourself to begin teaching SM?

Barbara G (USA)  Did you keep the students who read well, still reading in their present books and added the SM method along side? This puzzles me how to do this.

Karen Tucker  I began by looking at myself as a student, to learn the songs. It worked wonderfully, so I began the teacher training.

Helen P (AUS)  I began by starting as a student (for the similar reasons to Cindy), realizing how fantastic it is, and doing the training.

Barbara G (USA)  I first came to SM through the Learn at Home program. Liked it and thought it was a better way to learn/teach music.

Musicmaker   Barbara – I had one girl who loved the traditional approach. She definitely did not want to switch, and I let her stay in the traditional method. My quiet intention was to be exclusively SM, but didn’t want to force anyone to switch against their will. At our first SM Open stage, she decided to find a new teacher, and I helped her.

Emilie  i also started with the at home videos, loved it and wanted to better my own playing and did teacher training

Musicmaker  The rest of my students had struggles in one form or other, usually with the reading and playing at the same time, and were relieved to know that there was a way for them to just play the piano without all the struggle

As to preparing yourselves, how did you prepare for the first lesson? More specifically, how did you prepare for the first lesson where the student was a transfer student?  Whether your own formerly traditional student or someone else’s.

Barbara G (USA)  The students I have switched are the same way: relieved. Although I do have some that are regularly inquiring about “When will we get to the note reading?”

Musicmaker  What do you tell them, Barbara, when they ask about reading?

Barbara G (USA)  I tell them that when they have learned 30-40 or 50 songs we will be ready to move into the reading part. I also tell them that the Accomp. L1 is getting them ready to read because they have to source info. from the page and get it on to the keys – Neil talks about the Acc Program as learning how to sight-read chords, so the reading conversation can begin early on.

Musicmaker  I specifically have one boy who struggled mightily for at least 4 years with reading, and he was just getting a little progress when we switched. He’s the one who really wants to continue reading, as his mother reads. We had a long talk about what I’m looking for in his ability and discipline and Playlist before we’ll go to reading.  At this point, he believes that as soon as he’s ready, I’ll begin.

Barbara G (USA)  I taught my first switched students the same way I teach any new students. All the same conversations and approaches. All SM with no traditional methods.

Emilie  my first lesson was with beginners, and one girl had 2 years trad but was not a good player at all so no problem. her only comment was “this is easier”

Musicmaker  Emilie, you’re saying that you began as a teacher in SM and didn’t teach traditionally, but have a traditional background yourself?

Emilie  i learned trad for about 2 years as a kid

sreingoldUSA  I’ve had a number of students who have all quit, that had over 4 years traditional experience. I told students, as per Neil, that neither of us would know if this is right for them until a few months down the road. Unfortunately none of them stuck it out and it is these students that I would hope to retain in the future. I think it’s hard for them to wait and envision the outcome because the songs are so much easier than what they are used to playing and even when I explain the whole concept of learning a way of learning, of how the reading program will make them better readers, of the accompaniment, jazz, improv, composing, etc. they still quit.

Musicmaker  Sheri, one thing I’d try differently is to tell them that Simply Music IS right for them!  I’ve found that my belief in the method, and my confidence that this method is IT – has communicated itself to my students. No one doubts it’ll work.

Karen Tucker  I agree. I think that you as a teacher can know ahead of time if this is right for the potential student

sreingoldUSA  I believe I am very confident and enthusiastic and excited and communicate it well, esp. giving them my own traditional background and how much it has affected me, but still they quit.

Musicmaker  Sheri did any of the lost students explain why they quit?

Karen Tucker  Sheri, it does happen, yes. Some students and parents will not switch over.

sreingoldUSA  One teen liked it, but his mother didn’t attend the lessons (no more of that happening!) and she didn’t like the lack of a large formal recital!  The drive was also long for them and that may have had an effect.

Musicmaker I consider myself advanced, having gone from 2nd grade through a bachelor’s degree in the traditional methods. I personally laid most of my traditional training aside to learn SM.

sreingoldUSA  Some say they want to go back to reading sooner than I’m ready for them to.

Musicmaker  Sheri, I can see the problem. You probably wouldn’t have to worry about losing students in the future since you wouldn’t take on any whose parent refuses to attend. How many of your current students seem likely to quit?

Karen Tucker  I have an adult student who has a lot of experience and reads well. I told her she can read her own music at home in her own time, but no reading of the SM pieces. How about an approach like that, Barbara?

Emilie  this has all been so eye opening. My own concern is i had a mom bring in 2 kids 12 & 8 had trad lessons since they were 3, read comfortably, play classical music. i don’t know quite what to say about switching to them as they all seem to like classical as well as liking to read.

Barbara G (USA)  My dilemma exactly Emilie

Emilie  the only reason they came to me was the distance was less to me than their drive to current teacher

sreingoldUSA  If you already know how to read and enjoy sitting down to play/read which is what I do sometimes and continued to do while learning SM 2-1/2 years ago, I don’t see a problem, as long as the time is there for them to progress smoothly through SM.

Musicmaker  Concerning what to say to them – Are you clear on WHY anyone would want to switch?

Emilie  if you mean me, no I’m not sure about the reading part

Barbara G (USA)  I probably am not. And hence my reluctance to switch my most advanced trad. students.

HelenP(AUS)  Cindy, Barbara, Sheri – how do you introduce the reading program, when the whole concept of singles, doubles and clapping rhythms etc is so simple for those who can already read?

Musicmaker  If a current student, or a prospective student, does not know why SM is better, or if YOU don’t know why, then you’re starting out on the wrong foot already. Let’s talk about some of the reasons for switching, or for taking SM lessons in the first place

Helen – could you hold that question just a bit?

sreingoldUSA  One thing I ask students is if they can read easily in above and below the staffs. Usually the answer is no and I tell them that it won’t be a problem once they go through the SM reading program.

Emilie  i haven’t gotten to the reading yet and so don’t know anything about it, I’m still teaching in level one.  I’m not sure why the reading part in SM is better if they already know how to read or how to justify not reading if they already know how.

Karen Tucker  Another reason for switching is the addition of many skills that may not have, besides reading ledger lines. Transposing to any key on sight, arranging, playing a whole list of songs with no need for music, etc.

Musicmaker  Here’s a few reasons I see to switch – independence from the written page, self expression (vs. expressing another person’s composition), musical creativity

Emilie, MOST, not all, people who read, don’t read as well as they think. In addition – everyone who can play classical music is asked at some point, “would you play for me?” and they can’t ’cause they don’t have their music. Is that true of these you’re speaking about?

Emilie  I doubt they can play without music but I’m not sure they care about that, are happy to play from sheet

Musicmaker  Emilie, I’d find out. If they don’t see any reason to switch – then why are they?

Karen Tucker  The main reason I see that the reading program is better in SM has to do with the timeliness of it’s introduction.

sreingoldUSA  By the way, as per something a few minutes ago, I do believe it’s fine to be confident and at the same time be honest expressing the uncertainty of a student knowing if it will be right for him – remember this program isn’t for everyone, no matter how sold we are on it. It’s better to have students who are on the same page but let’s face it, that is just not going to happen 100 percent of the time.

Musicmaker  Another reason for the reading program in SM vs traditional – even with all my years of traditional reading – I still have to stop and ‘do the math’ when anything faster than a 16th note presents itself. In SM – the reading rhythms makes even the most complicated rhythms come easy

Sheri, absolutely. I didn’t mean that confidence and enthusiasm replaces common sense!! hee hee, at least, for most of us

sreingoldUSA  Emilie, I tell students how wonderful it is to be able to play a piano anywhere they are and usually they agree that it’s frustrating not having their music with them and so be unable to play when they are away from home.

Karen Tucker  You have to do a little probing and questioning to find out what people are wanting from lessons. If they are not wanting to excel in anything, are content with status quo, it would be hard to switch them.

Emilie  yes makes a lot of sense, they came to me without knowing about SM because they wanted a teacher closer in distance.

Musicmaker  The key there is ‘potential’.  I wouldn’t dream of taking a student who didn’t need SM. I’m not naturally a talker – or communicator, but I’ve found that talking to prospective students, and CURRENT students, about what they’re thinking, what they’re wanting, what they’re unhappy about etc helps me tons in making decisions about them

Do any of you have ‘fence straddlers’ who sort of like SM lessons and sort of…maybe…just might…want to quit’?

HelenP(AUS)  Yes – a couple of adults who are wavering, but not because of SM – I think they just can’t find the time to do the practice, no matter what method they were being taught.

Karen Tucker  no, mine already quit. But it was only one student. The rest have come around, and one I recommended trad. before she started. Now I’m going through convincing someone who wants to stay, to explain to ME why she wants to stay.

Barbara G (USA)  I think SM is of benefit to all students: traditional and new. People come to me as a piano teacher. They want to learn to play for different reasons, but they are trusting that I will have the best way to teach them what they want to know. Otherwise I would be going to them 🙂

Musicmaker  The question of time is a big one for adults. One thing I try to help them with is time management, if they’re willing to talk about it – I don’t mean their whole schedule – but how to fit SM into a busy day.

Barbara, you’re right there. You’re the expert.

Karen Tucker  Cindy, what basic, fundamental recommendations would you give for do’s and don’ts in switching people from traditional ways?

Barbara G (USA)  The challenge is to know how to present SM to meet their goals and mine.

Musicmaker  Ground zero – Spend all the time necessary communicating your personal reasons for switching

Barbara G (USA)  Do you mean why I started SM?

Musicmaker  No – I mean why you’re switching from teaching trad to SM.  The first thing I did was write a letter to all of my current students. The letter explained why, my plans for the future, rate changes, encouraged personal research, sent them to the web page, handed out a packet with the curriculum overview and student brochure.

Part of the re-training involved in SM is to get the student and parent to bear more of the responsibility for their own success. Encouraging research and giving them materials to read is the beginning of that

Barbara G (USA)  Did you have anyone not want to continue/switch because of the higher cost of materials?

Musicmaker  the higher cost is easily justified when they see all that the home materials contains – after level one – they begin to realize just how valuable the video and CD are

Emilie  just to interject, i would never return to traditional methods

Musicmaker  good for you

Karen Tucker  Me neither.  Did you give them the option of teaching them traditionally?

Musicmaker  Karen, All of my students had the option of continuing traditional. My personal goal was to become exclusively SM and so I pushed it very hard. Only one remained in traditional, and we, together, found her a different teacher

Karen Tucker  any ‘do not’s’ for us?

Musicmaker  Dont’s….

Don’t doubt Neil – everything he instructs you to do is necessary and best

Karen Tucker  that’s a tough one, eh?

Musicmaker,  That’s the toughest – people in general balk at new ideas – and especially when it touches on how I teach and have taught for years

Emilie  thank God for Neil, the deeper i get into SM the more i truly appreciate him and his wisdom

Karen Tucker  he’s a genius, to be sure

Musicmaker  an example – with the first of my transfer students, I pushed them, and they pushed themselves, to learn lots of new songs. It wasn’t until level 2 that I realized that I’d ignored Neil’s instruction about managing the Playlist. oops

Emilie  what was the result?

Musicmaker  another example. Neil told me to learn every new song a specific way. Watch a segment on the teacher video, and then on the student video, and the same thing for the next segment, and the next. When I didn’t – I found myself using more time re-learning what I’d forgotten.

The result was that when I finally got around to checking the level 1 songs, some students couldn’t play them at all!

Emilie  I’m just curious as to why you didn’t do it the way he suggested, it seemed so logical to do it that way.

Musicmaker  Have you ever just ‘not heard’ something that Neil says?

Emilie  i hope not

Karen Tucker  I have. Just went right by me. Especially on the TTP videos.  Then I watch it again later, and wonder where all the new stuff he’s now saying came from!!!

Emilie  i have to say that’s why I watch the videos over and over

Karen Tucker  exactly!

Musicmaker  I mean, I heard him but I didn’t really pay attention. I was so enthusiastic with the new method and the new songs that I and my students just eagerly pushed forward and learned more and more songs and ‘forgot’ to maintain.  There are some perspective changes in switching from traditional to SM – does anyone know what I mean?

Emilie  not really

Karen Tucker  I think I do, yes.

Emilie  i’d love clarification

Musicmaker  What is something that comes to mind Karen?  One of my perspectives as a traditionally trained teacher is that a private lesson is better. Recitals are necessary.  Reading is our goal.

Karen Tucker  One perspective shift is that reading music is not the primary goal, it’s just part of the entire process that comes along in the flow.

Musicmaker  Exactly! What is the goal of SM?

Karen Tucker  Play the darn piano!! Ha, ha!

Musicmaker  Have fun. Make music. !

Karen Tucker  Have fun, learn how to learn new songs.

Musicmaker  Emilie, is that clearer to you, what I’m getting at?

Emilie  yes thanks

Musicmaker  What about our perspective concerning parents?

Karen Tucker  In traditional, the parents are of no consideration.

Musicmaker  How badly do we need them?

Karen Tucker  We totally need them because they are the at-home teachers, so to speak. Also they are the support and enthusiasm for the student to continue?

Musicmaker  How can we re educate the parents, and work with them for the success of their children? Not only do we have to change our perspectives – we have to change those of the parents

Karen Tucker  S-L-O-W-L-Y ???

Musicmaker  chuckle. slowly, definitely, repeatedly, in as many different ways as possible. I use a monthly newsletter to address all these common issues that plague us – like maintaining the Playlist…checking the assignment…listening to the video and CD…practicing daily

Karen Tucker I haven’t really figured out THE way to be pro-active in educating the parents. They seem to only learn from hard experience. What did you do?   Do they read it?

Musicmaker  I also have gone to the parents in person and talked about their child.

So far, it’s hard to tell if they read it. But I seem to have a lot of cooperation from the parents that others don’t seem to have.

Karen Tucker  any other ways you have won the parents over?

Musicmaker  Karen, parents are won over by affirmation – whether from me, or from relatives who are amazed at how good junior is, or by being able to participate.

Emilie  kind of an aside, but someone mentioned the SHM audio, in what capacity do you get students to use it? ask them to play along every song? the only time I’ve had student use it to to play along with Honeydew.

Barbara G (USA)  I have them listen.  They always want to know what new songs are in the new levels.

Musicmaker  Listening to the audio is part of the assignment for every new song, right Emilie?

Emilie  you mean it’s ok for them to go ahead on the audio, as opposed to not being ok (i know why) to go ahead on the video?

Musicmaker  sure – the more the better

Barbara G (USA)  Yes definitely

Emilie  uh oh, i haven’t told them to listen to audio as assignment, as i have with the video

Musicmaker  Emilie – lightbulb moment!!

Emilie  thank you! do i just say listen to it or something more (not sure what to say)?

Barbara G (USA)  Emilie, I tell them to listen when they get the new materials

Musicmaker  Emilie, I tell them that as important as the video is, the audio is as important. The video teaches and trains the eyes and mind – the audio teaches and trains the ear and spirit.

Barbara G (USA)  Then I tell them to listen when they learn a new song, or when they need to play evenly, or musically. Have them clap/walk with the video or sing along to learn the words.

Emilie  so they should “pace themselves” listening to the audio?

Musicmaker  Another way I use the audio – helping them develop tempo or steady beat – assuming they know the song well enough to keep up with the audio – I assign them to play along for a week and find what is different between them and the audio

Emilie  great idea!

Barbara G (USA)  I feel the more they listen to the audio the better, any time. I ask the parents to put the audio on while the kids are playing even.

Musicmaker  What Barbara says is like the SM approach to reading rhythm – get it in the gross motor skills and move it into the fingers

Barbara G (USA)  I mean not playing piano but just playing with toys – back ground music.  So Cindy, the students you have switched have switched totally and they start at the beginning of the SM materials

Musicmaker  Yes.

Barbara G (USA)  You don’t ever introduce Reading Rhythm/Notes at first?

Musicmaker  No reading at first. I really believe that the longer I can delay them, the better. I feel no pressure to get into reading, do you?

Barbara G (USA)  Some of my most advanced students are reading Mozart, full Scott Joplin, etc.  I do not feel I can ignore reading during their lessons with me.

Musicmaker  If they are already reading in their own time, why do you need to deal with reading right away?  Obviously (?) they don’t need reading skills, so it seems to me that you’re in a perfect position to just teach them a new way of looking at the keyboard.

Barbara G (USA)  I feel they could still work with me on their reading and benefit from SM to learn how to play by playing.  I could play very well traditionally but was “paper bound” before SM.  Now I see SM enlightening me to what I already knew, but didn’t know traditionally.  Does that make sense? I would like to do the same for my advanced traditional students, but feel uncertain how to start.

Musicmaker  Sure – but the benefit isn’t in reading yet – I can read but had no independence away from the page, too. If I took lessons – I’d want to know how to do that – be independent from the page. So I wouldn’t take them to the page at all – just revel in the songs and arrangements and accompaniments for a long time and when it’s time, get as quickly as possible into composition and arrangements. Think of what it is that they need, not what it is that they already have.

Barbara G (USA)  Yes, I see.

Musicmaker  What is it that you already knew but didn’t know traditionally?

Barbara G (USA)  How to get a piece into my fingers using patterns, sequences, intervallic approach,

Musicmaker That’s it! Using the written page for clues and nothing more. Have you personally delved into the arrangements much?

Barbara G (USA)  I have learned L1 and L2 arrangements

Musicmaker  How did you learn them, and what did you learn from playing them?

Barbara G (USA)  I learned them from the TTP2 materials.  Suddenly I began to see the patterns that I have played for years as patterns that reoccur and could be used in “new” places.

Musicmaker  One thing I learned is that the patterns and chords that make the left hand so much more interesting can be applied to anything, just like you. Have you tried to apply them to something else, like, say, Lullaby?  This is the sort of thing that stimulates the traditionally trained, paper bound, pianist. All of a sudden, I can sound like George Winston!

Barbara G (USA)  Not Lullaby specifically, but some others: Tear for a Friend, blues.  So this is a selling point to traditional students?  Have you had  traditional students switch to SM who really only wants to play classical?

Musicmaker  Absolutely. Anyone with ‘some’ traditional training needs to know that Simply Music will give them what traditional lessons never did or will.  I haven’t personally had anyone transfer who only wants to play classical. You do?

Barbara G (USA)  I have some who are still traditional at this point who want to stay classical and therefore I haven’t tried to switch, but I can see SM would benefit them

Musicmaker  Have you asked them why they want to stay classical?

Barbara G (USA)  No, not really. I think because they like that genre of music. I have another who likes “happy” music. Marches, rags, etc and was turned off by minor sounds.

Musicmaker  I’d definitely ask. If you look at the lives of the classical composers – they could improvise, transpose, accompany, arrange – all in addition to compose. You offer a comprehensive piano education. Most people, when it all gets boiled down, only like what they think they’re good at. We make them good at everything!

Barbara G (USA)  good point

Musicmaker  I personally love blues, boogie-woogie, ragtime, jazz. But it’s all been a mystery to me before, as to how it goes together. I never understood what ’12 bar blues’ even meant. I’m not crazy about classical, because of my history, but Simply music unabashedly goes to the most popular classical tunes and catches even my attention.

Barbara G (USA)  As I suspected most of my hesitation to switch my remaining students is the lack of clarity in my mind. This has helped. Thank you.