Simpedia

Barbara M.

For the joy of teaching this unusual student, I would scholarship the extra time. The ripple effect of his learning is sure to come back to you.

Ian M., Indiana

Sheri, I can see his point – and of course, I can see where you’re coming from. It seems to me that he’s not going to be a student for long, compared to other students. If he’s going to finish up level 3 in 6-7 lessons, he’s moving 5-6 times as fast as the average student. He might not keep up that pace, but, then again, he might.

It sounds like the bottleneck – for both of you, actually – is the rate at which it’s possible to communicate that which needs to be communicated. So how are we to think about the context for communicating more information? One way that you’ve mentioned is by increasing the lesson time; your time is worth money, but he has issues (whether financial or philosophical) with paying more money. The Simply Music Method is also a valuable commodity. I think it’s fairly clear that he *is* getting a substantial value for what he’s paying.

But we might also start to think about what might be involved with finding ways of supplementing the in-lesson communication with out-of-lesson communication. Email could be used, or a shared Google document, or a wiki … Of course, these methods also take time, but I think it would be possible to work out a system that required a pretty light touch, because your student is able to take focused instruction well. Specifically, I’m thinking of this sentence: “time to discuss various questions and issues that may have come up during the practice week that may need teacher’s input & guidance to productively move forward”. I think it might be a help to email back and forth three times a week so that those questions and issues can be addressed in a more timely manner. You could set it up so that you would be the arbiter of what questions could be answered over email and what questions would need to wait for the lesson.

It also occurs to me that you might not even need a “back and forth” system – just letting him know that he can email you those questions and issues means that you’ll be better prepared for the lesson, and able to skip the step of him explaining the issue, and that means more directed communication within the lesson.

I’m sure there are pitfalls with this idea. If it doesn’t sound feasible to you, or if more negatives than positives occur to you while thinking about it, it’s probably not the way to go.

Terri P., Michigan

I would add more composition projects. Sometimes I have my students compose new arrangements for songs on their playlist. They can also write lyrics for their own compositions, or SM songs that do not have lyrics.

Carrie L., Michigan

I’ve had a couple adult students like this. I add lots of arrangements from the beginning of lesson 2 even and then I add the accompaniment program early so they can do their own projects with that when that’s done or even before it’s done.

I also, like Terri, add lots of compositions.  I add more arrangements in the beginning so they see the value of SM a bit more and also so they have a challenge. I even hope they get a little overwhelmed so they see the value of having a teacher.

I find around Book 4, things start to slow down.

Terah W., Kansas

In addition to all the great ideas given already, let me add that there has to be a learning curve here for Teacher who finds himself with a student like this. The info you garner will be be invaluable for every level of student you will ever teach. It probably wouldn’t hurt any of us on the Forum either to hear about this particular journey!

Indeed, I have wondered about the group lesson format myself as to how to handle the student in the group who is quicker than the others at picking things up as well as processing them.

Beth S., Tennessee

First, I would say that as a teacher, I would feel obligated to adapt to some extent to the needs of the student, even if it were to encroach upon my own setup or policies. In a school setting, most all of the students will work well within the confines of a traditional class time limit; however, there is often one that doesn’t fit. If I were a school teacher, I think it would be perfectly appropriate to spend a little extra time with this student outside of the class setting to make sure that they experienced success, even if I had to stay after school now and then. I would figure “it all comes out in the wash” somehow. To tell them, “Sorry, one hour is the time allotted for history; my time is up,” would be a terrible response to such a student, whether they were an incredibly slow learner or an extremely gifted one. I think that the time given beyond duty, in this case, would only come back to you in some way in the future, if nothing else than just as getting the education of having taught such a student or having the honor of being his teacher. One never knows how things end up or where a student will go. If the majority of your student body were like this, then the rules would obviously have to change, but in this case, he’s the exception. Furthermore, if a student were to quit, I would want them to do so because they didn’t keep up and didn’t do their part, but never because I was unable to make my program work for them.

For some reason, I acquired about half a dozen of these type students this past year. They have kept me on my toes! I’m quite certain I’ve spent extra time, but I don’t look at the clock and don’t really want to know. Truthfully, we are usually having so much fun, that I blame it on myself for losing track of time, and then I don’t feel guilty for stretching lesson time. If I were doing groups (which I am not), they would not fit in a regular type group, and to make them do so would be thinking of my schedule and not their capacities. I am certain they would quit and go back to a traditional teacher who would happily get out the Lizst and make them sweat. With that in mind, this is what I have done that has worked for me and maybe your student is even beyond this; I don’t know.

While the songs are easy in the early foundation levels, the key for me was to keep looking for something they couldn’t do — a place where they stumbled. It might be different for different students. For all of mine, across the board, it was composition. They were able to zip through all the foundation pieces in a snap. I could feel the impatience with most of them and their skeptical mothers. I assured them this was just the launching board, a place to start. With one of these kids, a ten year old, I played Alma Mater, then sat her down to teach it, and she played it perfectly from beginning to end before I said a word. Now what? The pressure has not been comfortable, but it has opened my mind to the possibilities.

In order to linger with the foundation songs longer, I’ve tried to find some element in each song that can be copied and used in composition. So, as an example for the above scenario, after the student knew the steps of Alma Mater (not just by ear), here’s some ideas I might have added in to slow things down a bit:

1. Make up your own “humpty dumpty” phrases (same rhythm) that answer back like two birds calling and add those in and not lose a beat
2. Then how about a project using the same humpty dumpty rhythm but in a totally different mood, slow and melancholic and beautiful. I made up a song once using the blues scale but it’s mournful and makes me cry when I play it. Nothing jumpy about it.

After learning the three verses of Dreams or Storm (basic, Arr 1, Arr 2), hook them together with transitions, then add intro and outro. Now you have the basic formula for the arrangement of any song. I use this for making up new arrangements for church every week. Make the student do a mini comp for the intro and weave it through at each transition. Then make them take the mini comp out of the arrangement and make it a free-standing big composition instead of just a small piece of a song.

A lot of these composition projects don’t take but a minute to assign and if you give several of these a week, it will slow him down. Of course, in order to assign these things, it means I myself have to be doing the same thing which requires then a lot of practice, but in my own practice, I then in turn come up with more ideas to pass along to them. I just finished a song named “Chattanooga Rain” in which I envisioned a rain storm, so I challenged my students this week to make up a song interpreting some aspect of nature. I wanted it to be like a soundtrack for a nature slideshow of their theme. They come back with what they’ve started with and then I tear it all apart, tell them to fix this and that, move things around, etc. It takes time and stalls the process so they can have time to let the foundation stuff gel and play out before moving along so fast. Plus, in my case I had mothers who were not happy to write checks every couple of weeks for new books.

Kerry V., Australia

Reading what your student wrote though I feel maybe I have missed something in comparison to what the other teachers have said – conversation ARE to be part of the lesson. If a student comes in with questions about their songs or what they are doing, that is answered as part of their lesson! It is not an extra time thing. If this student is going as fast as you say then a few minutes with discussion needs only be short, if they get what they need to. If they don’t, then that is part of what they need to work on during the week. If he has an issue with the $’s then he needs to be aware of what value he truly is getting. Compare that if he were to do lessons at the rate of a ‘normal’ student, he would have way exceeded the cost by now, so financially he is miles in front.

I don’t know how I would handle this situation myself as I don’t know the dynamics there; however, from your post, my thoughts are that he has an expectation which is not relevant to the way you are teaching as he Does Not Know where he is leading, you do. He does need to trust the process and you, and slow it all down so he can absorb all the information given to him in a lesson. I might offer a few more minutes in lesson time but I have a feeling he is wanting more than what is being offered which is not really fair on you either.

Teaching the student to be patient with the progress is important too as later levels will be much more challenging and if he learns this now, then he won’t come up to too many later and if he does, will know how to approach the issue. What is his past experience? Why did he take up SM lessons?

I know that other teachers ideas have offered leniency towards him but I am going to be the devil’s advocate here as I don’t feel very comfortable with his suggestions. So, look at what he is like as a person. Some people expect a lot for nothing (or cheaper). Is he expecting more from you than he can really have? Does he know how to break down the songs? Can he play from any position in any song? Can he play them with different rhythm? Can he play with the keyboard turned off, now that can be tough!? Can he transition songs as Beth had suggested? Does he compose AND set up the diagrams from these songs too? Does he play the Blues in different rhythm? Really challenge him. Maybe he can play the songs well but does he having trouble listening to you in lessons, which brings up these added questions he has during his week?

Sorry I probably am not very helpful here but I am feeling very cautious towards this. I do agree with the other teachers but something is not quite right here. Trying to use email time to avoid conversations in lesson time! What does he fear that he is ‘missing’ out on?

There is something that simply doesn’t sit right with me and having trouble articulating it clearly. Hope you get something from this!

Cindy B., Illinois

This man wants private lessons on his terms. His price, his time, his pace. I’ve invested in an occasional 90 minute session of massage therapy and paid 90$.  If I called my therapist up and said that I like the 90 minute session, but I think that 90.00 is too much to pay, how do you think he’d respond? What about paying only 65% of your garbage bill because you were on vacation for 35% of the month?

Something I’ve noticed is the tendency for piano teachers to devalue themselves for the sake of the music. We are generally a compassionate and understanding bunch of people, who really, really want to see our students get the most satisfaction and reward from lessons, and who are typically still looking at piano teaching as less important or less valuable than, say, landscaping!  We barter away our principles and standards for the sake of the student.  It’s an HONOR and a PRIVILEGE to be able to take piano lessons from a Simply Music piano teacher. The value added to the life of a student lasts way beyond the 3, 4, 5, or 6 years they take lessons from you. The cost, duration, and content of piano lessons with you, the Simply Music teacher, shouldn’t be negotiable.

Mark M., New York

Though private vs. group may affect financial affordability, the issue of moving at this speed would need to be dealt with just as much if there was a group of however many students all moving at this speed together. It’s a speed issue, period. And if a student is moving that quickly — is regularly able to just play a piece right away after seeing a piece demonstrated once, is able to traverse 2.5 Foundation levels over the course of 5 lessons, etc. — it seems to me there is likely one or more of these things going on:

Insufficient use of parallel streams — Others here have already mentioned some great ideas about using composition more, possibly much more. If a student is already that competent at sheer performance, composition and creativity seem to be the best opportunities for deeper focus. And using the existing pieces as the basis for composition, as some have said, is a great, low-hanging-fruit, incremental way to do it. I’d also suggest broadening that to the endless possibilities of creating arrangements for the songs in the program, whether using elements from the Arrangements program itself or by further cross-breeding existing repertoire pieces. Even with a Level-3-size repertoire, one could spend months and months exploring these possibilities without even venturing to wholly original compositions. Add original compositions, and the possibilities increase exponentially beyond that.

Insufficient familiarity with learning strategies — Neil’s own story about how he learned to play resonated strongly with me. I succeeded mostly in spite of the traditional lessons I got, learning most of what I learned by messing around on my own, for years and years, figuring out how to make my own arrangements of pop songs, etc., etc., much like in Neil’s story. How quickly I pick up the SM songs is beside the point.  I’m an SM teacher, and I want to be a good one, and I know that I therefore most go carefully through all the steps, so that I know what they are, so that I can help make sure my students who *need* the steps will be able to learn effectively from me. So students like this, who can skip straight to performance and even having pieces memorized that quickly, look, truly, they may be getting the SM repertoire, but the odds of them getting the SM *method* are slim to none. The *repertoire* is not the *method*. Every single song in the program could be replaced, a 100% different repertoire, but the method, the learning strategies, could still be delivered with complete integrity. We could come up with *thousands* of completely different SM repertoire, not one song repeated, and still get the method across with complete integrity. I’d recommend taking a look at this piece I’d written early on for my newsletter — http://potluckcreativearts.com/2009/04/when-perfection-is-a-problem/ — Again, other teachers have alluded to this. Kerry V.’s questions in particular I thought were great, asking if the student is able to do all those different things, not just composition but many other things as well, different ways of showing a real knowledge of not only the song but the way the song was learned.

All of this leads to a possibility. Is the student able to compose brilliantly when you give all these assignments we’re talking about? Is the student able to break down songs and explain and create diagrams and start from the middle spontaneously, etc., etc., etc.? If the student can really do every thing we could imagine asking of a Simply Music student — not just playing the songs, but *everything* we could ask of a Simply Music student — then, at least for however much of the program you’ve gotten through so far, this student came to you not needing the SM method, already having internally what the SM method has to offer. If you can keep having this student go this quickly through the program, maybe you’ll find a point where finally there are challenges, and maybe then you can finally start having a more “normal” lesson experience with this student, one that the student feels is a satisfying challenge within the amount of time you feel is reasonable for a weekly lesson. If you never find that place, it could turn out that Simply Music, despite whatever reasons the student has for finding it enjoyable, may just have nothing to offer the student.

Based on my own lifelong history as a musician, as well as my shorter history as a piano teacher (about nine years) and even shorter history (less than two years) as a Simply Music teacher, though, I’d say the odds of this happening are not high. There is, on one hand, a student’s performance skills and ability to play the pieces taught. On the other hand, there is the depth of understanding of learning strategies appropriate to have in conjunction with any given level of performance skill. Is it possible that someone without Simply Music experience has learning skills to match a high level of performance skills? Yes — but not very likely. Is it possible that someone without Simply Music experience or any piano performance experience has such high skill with learning strategies in general that they are able to breeze through much of the SM program very, very quickly? Yes — but even less likely. Lots of people may come to Simply Music with a high facility in performance skill. Few are likely to have an equally high facility in learning skills. Except for complete beginners, the odds of someone coming to Simply Music with anything close to correspondence between these two things is exceeding low. And that means that finding the point in the program where the performance skills would be a challenge for a fast student would mean finding a point in the program *far*, *far* beyond where that student is in terms of learning strategy.

Students who learn pieces along with strategy go incrementally through both, and they can tend to be satisfied enough with that. The bigger the mismatch between these two things, the more a student is going to need to be humble and patient and willing to have certain aspects of their lessons seem too easy for them — if they want to get to a point where they will genuinely be able to increase the easy side of their abilities (in the current case, performance skills) beyond what they are already able to do. They will need to follow all the instructions for every piece, no matter how much they think they can skip straight to playing the piece perfectly. They will need to take on less each week than what they are “capable of” — because what they will spend quite a bit of learning through their piano lessons will not have much of anything to do with what their *performance* skill are capable of. Humility and patience are themselves two key things such a student will be learning alongside the learning strategies themselves.

I know there are some big differences in how teachers coordinate the streams, some teachers doing different streams to a greater or lesser extent. I personally prefer the depth of wringing as much as possible out of all the streams, providing as rich as possible an experience for my students at every step along the way, right from the start. Neil assured me that, taking this approach, it would be perfectly normal and expected for my students to go through the Foundation levels much more slowly than other teachers who do not dive as deeply into the other streams, but that my students should get tremendous benefit along the way from this approach. Taking this approach, my most advanced students have taken about 1.25 years to get to the completion of Fluff Pie, i.e., the middle of Foundation 3. Ian posed numbers suggesting Sheri’s student moving at 5-6 times the speed as the average student. This student, though, is moving at *thirteen* times the speed of my most *advanced* students. Want to talk about me as a teacher and how I probably would be able to move my students more quickly when I’m more experienced? That’s fine. But even if I imagine a situation where I was deemed the best Simply Music teacher or all and had my face cast in bronze to sit on the desk of Neil himself so he could gaze upon my visage every moment of every day, even then, I honestly believe that I would not end up taking similar students much faster through the program. I’m certain these few students of mine would have been capable, from a sheer performance skill standpoint, of playing the pieces from first half of Level 3 much earlier. That’s just beside the point. The point of the method overall, and certainly the point of my wanting to take a more in-depth approach with the multiple streams, is to provide a rich learning experience which includes rich exposure to rich learning strategies which can only be truly learned — i.e., owned, deeply possessed, mastered — when practiced incrementally over time.

In the end, then, unless a fast student like this is one of the very, very rare people whose skill with learning strategies is already at an extremely high level, then moving so quickly through the so many pieces of the program seems to me only likely to deny this person the main benefit that Simply Music actually has to offer this type of studnet — learning a way of learning. If deeper use of the other streams can make this possible, great. If careful explanation of the importance of going slowly in any case for the sake of learning a way of learning can make this possible, great. If neither of things makes the student capable of finding satisfaction along the way with Simply Music, then Simply Music is probably not for them — either because the student is one of the rare human beings who basically comes to the table already having too much of what Simply Music has to offer or, far more likely, because the student is not willing to face and humbly do something about the tremendous mismatch between their performance skills and their learning skills.

Elaine F., South Carolina

I agree that he doesn’t see the value of what he is getting– not only in value of SM but what he has accomplished. This must be turned around.

Here’s why: I had a similar student (he had years of previous experience but felt he was only a” trained monkey”.  We had a fine personal relationship and he was NOT a mean person nor did I experience him as in any way passive aggressive. He gave me rave reviews on level 1 and 2 (can’t recall if we did 3 or not–) -feedback forms and referred his neighbor to me. He was paying me for hour lessons– money was not an issue at all for him. After about 18 months he quit . He softened the exit saying that he would not be here very often over the next year (he had two homes) etc etc–. I didn’t want any sugar coating so I pressed for more info he said he “couldn’t really say that he was a better pianist than he was when he began.” It was quit a blow. I realized later he didnt SEE how far he had come. He had taken baby steps in improvisation — which was totally new– and even reported that his kids said he seemed to be having more fun than before. I think there may have been other issues going on– I think the economy hit him hard . I learned later that he sold one of his homes and who knows what else was up. . But I can only address what I can see. Now I make a priority of helping all students, but especially this type– see their progress.

re lesson planning:

1. insist he LISTEN to other pianists– you tube is great for that. I always tell my students the story of one of the great piano teachers (plug in a name here cause I’ve forgotten who– Horowitz? Reubenstien? (sp??) )- before accepting a student, they asked:

• How much time will you allot to practice?
• how much time will you allot to LISTENING to others.

2. work on musicality in every little area.

Beth S., Tennessee

But surely, the main obligation and priority of a teacher IS to feed the hunger of the student, however intense.  Of course there has to be some balance between policies and student needs, but I feel that when a student hires me as a teacher, there is an assumption that I will not only copy a program but that I will also meet them where they are at, whatever that means.  Furthermore, the program is designed for a particular profile of student. Most everyone falls within this category. However, very occasionally someone comes along who doesn’t quite fit. In that case, I have the option to keep my program only for the predictable student or to make it work for the exceptional student.

Let’s say I own a shop and promise a great shopping experience to all my customers. I have certain policies and procedures for doing business in my store. This would work and apply to the masses that shop there. However, there might come along an exception who is, let’s say, handicapped in a wheelchair. In that case, I have to go to the expense and effort to build a ramp so they can shop too. It’s time consuming, costly, and a headache in the beginning, but in the end it builds a great loyalty and is an investment into any other potential shoppers who might have the same needs.

One reason a student like this might require more time is because you are somewhat making up your teaching response to them as you go along. This is something new and is not yet mastered. It is not within the confines of the TTP materials which is designed for the average student. It is an education for the teacher and usually the first time through a thing takes more time as it is unchartered waters. The first time I go through teaching any element of SM, it takes me longer than after having done it several times. If, in addition, I then have to use my own creativity to design things for the exceptional student, it will take even longer. This is not the student’s fault. Teacher and student are both learning.

In addition, I think it is very important to stay marketable. I feel a lot of pressure to keep my students “filled up.” I am very aware that there are plenty other teachers out there who will be happy to snatch up my hungry ones or the ones who get bored because I didn’t deliver. True, every student needs to start at the beginning with SM, but some are just way beyond that in their initial abilities, capacities, and ability to absorb the information. Neil once told me that SM is not for everybody, meaning that it’s obviously not for Jim Brickman! There might be some things that are new that they can learn but they’re going to fly through and in order to keep them, I feel it appropriate to stretch however I need to in order to meet them. I don’t think ten or fifteen minutes here or there or a phone conversation or two is anywhere inappropriate. I would expect a school teacher to give at least that much in response to my child were it needed. Those are the types of teachers you watch documentaries about.

Now, if the student is demanding more time, that is one thing. But I don’t think things should get to the point where a student is not filled up and challenged. If they are feeling that frustration, then I don’t think it is in order to blame them for being demanding. We all want our money’s worth.

Carol W., California

I seem to have such a different take on this, just warning you…..I hope I can help in some way….
first off:

i don’t think it is my responsibility to fill a student’s appetite……Essentially, I see my responsibility as being able to provide the tools for the student to take off and fly……once I myself , as a new student, got into all the M,m,d chords all the 7s… practising all of those around the cycle of 5ths from the root, 1st and 2nd inversions….and then the clusters and scale journeys…..I as a student could while away many hours improvising with certain effects and rhythms that a teacher could divulge…..also, as a student I explore jazz workshops, I take classes with other teachers…..all of this adds to my simply music experience which is the core of learning…….but also increases my self sufficiency and certainly doesn’t detract from what my SM teacher is guiding me thru and towards….
transposing pieces I am learning also takes time and guidance….and like someone responded, once you hit level four and reading, things tend to sloooow up a bit…..maybe he needs to teach….learning how to do that could keep him occupied! and he might want to join a group to watch how you do it!!